Morning Brew: April 24th, 2008

Oh, and while I did feel that perhaps I was the first to coin the term "Torontanamo", it appears that I'm not. There's also a guy on Myspace using Torontonamo Bay (different spelling).

Those vespa ads are so offensive.

To be honest i would rather have the stations named after a corperation..and have the money that the stations need....
If they have a name to the station they must be PERFECT!

I'd be totally embarrassed and turned off by corporate naming of transit stations.

Any other cities in the world doing this already? Are they being called sell-outs (whatever that means)?

OMG they want to name subway stops after major businesses! Somebody stop them before they name Yorkdale Station after... Yorkdale... Damn. Can we charge them retroactively?

Why not name stations after the major businesses or sights in the area? We already have ads in our subway stations - are those too offensive?

Ideally, I would like to see local businesses (or shopping districts) and landmarks be awarded names over "Coca Cola Station", but hey, beggars can't be choosers.

Thiink about the tourists who come to our city - how do they know where Eaton Centre is? Why can't they just look at our subway map and say "Oh there it is"? Why do they have to consult other papers to find it? Why not name Osgoode -> Opera, Dundas -> Eaton Centre, Bay -> Yorkville Merchant's Association? errr... Hazelton Lanes maybe?

I'm all for renaming subway stations after local attractions who could sponsor the station in some way. How do you know what's at King? Eglinton? Christie? Those names don't tell you anything about what's around the area. There just need to be some guidelines for the process of renaming stations.

Oh, good one, Milczyn, that'll be really klassy: "Next stop, Sears Dundas, Sears Dundas Station. Come see the softer side of Sears." And the sponsor would pay for the station -- just like a two million dollar donation "paid" for the five million dollar reno at Museum, I suppose.

But if they do it in Dubai, well, then. Could there be a better exemplar of taste, sustainability, and even social justice than that shining jewel?

Cost of living increase is 2%, so their raise is 50% higher then cost of living, and they'd already be the highest paid transit workers in the GTA. Stop whining and do the fucking job that no one forced you to do anyway.

As for naming stations, there's always the potential you could hear:

"Now pulling into "Virgin" Queen."

No comment on pulling out.

@Dave

What you're suggesting couldn't be any tackier, IMO. Tourists don't need to have their hands held to such an extent that we should give our subway stations names associated with major attractions in the area, do they?

Google maps, guidebook, and printed tourist maps already suffice, without selling transit station names to corporations.

Also, business is volatile and changes rapidly. Station names should be permanent to avoid logistical nightmares that would occur when businesses change names, fold, etc.

Eric, are you offended by Yorkdale station? Why not name Leslie Station, IKEA... or Don Mills, Fairview? If there was a major landmark involving Sears why not name a station Sears?

Or perhaps you think we should rename Museum station University? 'Cause, hey, you can't name a station after a place - it would be advertising what's there. Just nondescript names please.

And we're not talking about station renovations - which are tricky to budget (PS: How's this for interesting Trivia who was involved in the Musuem renovation and Mayor Miller's campaign co-chair? Why Jack Diamond of Diamond and Schmitt Architects) - it's just sponsorship.

With the exception of Yorkdale, all other stations (even Old Mill, Scarborough Centre, and North York Centre) refer to neighbourhoods, streets, or have historical context. I feel it should remain that way.

Jerrold, it's not hand holding - it's accessibility. They shouldn't have to check google maps first, consult a book - why can't it just be there?

Are you saying we shouldn't have station names reflect landmarks? Call up the TTC and tell them they'll have to change Queen's Park, Museum, Yorkdale, and Scarborough Town! They could close up and not be there anymore! They actually let people know what's there - that's practically taking tourists by the hand and walking them to the place - they should have to google it (and be exposed to google ads) first!

It is already getting busy in the bike lanes in the city on my morning, and now more-so the afternoon, commute. I wouldn't want one of those pedal-mobiles in the bike lanes...It is hard enough to tell someone you are passing them on their left when they are listening...rather, blasting, music with headphones, and no helmet - in heavy traffic to boot. Imagine if those people had to swerve into traffic...especially when they would hear it.

Sorry, I'm at work and was interrupted by a phone call - didn't see your last post...

Historical context, naming after streets, is all fine and good if you have nothing else to refer to... but why not have the option of renaming it to something more relevant to the people who will use the station? Who cares about Spadina? Is it really the Spadina I want to go to for Chinese food? Or is it the place I want to go to for Casa Loma?

What's at Bayview Station?... What's so important about Bayview that they had to name it after the street? Why not call it Bayview Village? Some places need to be put on the map...

(Yet again, another phone call interrupted... so you may have already put up a response)

@Dave

There's a HUGE difference between naming stations after landmarks that are cultural institutions and selling naming rights to stations to department stores that sell jeans. You don't seem to be making any distinction between the two.

@Dave .."Who cares about Spadina?"

I, for one, do.

@Jerrold "I, for one, do."

Thank you for proving my point. I didn't know there was a Spadina museum there and I live here! I knew about Casa Loma however. Perhaps it should be renamed to something more clear like "Casa Loma" (but not "Spadina Museum" to avoid confusion with Museum).

Some cultural institutions are businesses, Jerrold. You seem to not realize that. The Distillery District is very much a place of culture - but it is first and foremost A BUSINESS. If a new line were to open up and have a stop near there, should it simply be called Gooderham? Or Distillery District?

Also, you seem to think that jeans and fashion aren't a part of culture. Try telling that to fashion students - you might hear something different. What makes Dundas so important to our culture RIGHT NOW, that we can't rename it to Eaton Centre?

If you read my first post, I simply I would like to see local businesses (or shopping districts) and landmarks be awarded names over "Coca Cola Station". I don't like that idea, but I wouldn't discount it entirely. (PS: Coke, is a pretty important part of North American culture btw - so maybe that isn't so offensive to you)

People need to wake up and realize the city will not find and money growing on trees. (cause there isn't any in this city anyways) The city is in shambles, everyday the same stories... Horrid, crumbling infrastructure, city taxes, TTC strikes, raising fares, and disgusting stations that look like morgues. These things will never go away and people are complaining about funding because it would be selling out? Wake Up! I'm not a fan of going coporate but improving stations and pumping some needed money in the city is now more vital then ever.

I wouldn't mind if a company or neighbourhood had a station named after the neighbourhood. Perhaps Pape as 'Greektown' or Dundas as 'Dundas Square'.

There are only a few places where I would be okay with business names sneaking in.

Major malls, like the Eaton Centre. (But I think Dundas Square sounds better)

Longstanding buildings that haven't already sold their name to a company. Though I can't think of any on the subway line that haven't already. York University is an obvious upcoming one.

If they offer a ludicris amount of money I think I'd be willing to forgive them. If they pay for Transit City, then I think I could deal with a Eglinton Pepsi Station.

I just read the bit about Casa Loma, and that is a renaming I could fully support. It's an institution that isn't likely to dissappear anytime in the forseeable future. It isn't named after any existing corporation or business (such as Scotiabank theatre or Air Canada Centre).

"What's at Bayview Station?... What's so important about Bayview that they had to name it after the street? Why not call it Bayview Village? Some places need to be put on the map..."

Bayview fucking Avenue! I hope you're being sarcastic here.

The benefit of naming stations after streets (giving riders an idea of the layout of the city and addresses of a certain neighbourhood) is much more important than characterizing the flavour of a neighbourhood and where people MIGHT go. By disembarking at Bayview Station passengers WILL BE GOING to an address on or off Bayview, and they MIGHT go to Bayview Village.

It was great growing up to know where certain streets were because I had seen them on the subway map. Greenwood east, Islington west, etc. ? those are not vague descriptors of a neighbourhood.

"Historical context, naming after streets, is all fine and good if you have nothing else to refer to... but why not have the option of renaming it to something more relevant to the people who will use the station?"

The most relevant piece of information here is the street name, which is considerably less likely to change than the business makeup of the neighbourhood.

I think I need to make this point again ? the formation of a mental map of the city as I was growing up based on looking at a subway map was invaluable to my eventual navigational expertise.

...the formation of a mental map of the city as I was growing up based on looking at a subway map was invaluable to my eventual navigational expertise."

Great point. So true.

Note to pro-sponsorship armchair business geniuses: the TTC costs more than a billion dollars a year to run. Unless your (hip! practical!) sponsor is willing to pay tens of millions of dollars year after year, this brilliant scheme won't even show up on the budget pie-chart.

Nice language there Jordan. But who said you couldn't put the street names underneath the station name in smaller print (like they do currently)? Take a closer look at the subway map next time. Here I'll put one right here for you http://www.8wellesley.ca/images/user/ttc_subway_route_map.gif

It's great to know that when I leave Bayview I'm on Bayview Avenue - but where am I on Bayview? Bayview is a very long street. What about King St? Where on King am I? Spadina - I'm actually on Spadina Road, not Spadina Ave for good Chinese food a long way down the street. Sorry - but I don't see your point as clearly as you would hope.

@Jerrold - I thought you wanted everyone to refer to google maps to know where they should go?

Actually, I take back the King St. point - King and Yonge, duh... But still, I don't necessarily see your point about how you can't be sure where you are when you look at a station name on a map...

im getting sick to my stomach.. TTC=FUCKBOYS
if i have to take a street car 3 blocks i have to pay the same amount as if i were going from etobicoke to scarborough

Selling naming rights for station names is a horrible idea, but I don't think its a sincere one. Like "mothball the Sheppard subway", the TTC specializes in sensationalistic suggestions to stir up the necessary outrage, so that they can implement a less-controversial solution as a compromise.

@Dave

Actually, what I said was that tourists (not "everyone") had many options (not just "Google maps") for navigating the city, and that naming subway stations to help tourists find department stores is not my idea of an appropriate solution.

"But still, I don't necessarily see your point about how you can't be sure where you are when you look at a station name on a map..."

My point is that you CAN be sure where you are, with the smaller address text on the map as a guide.

And with regards to your Chinatown point, at least if you end up at a station with the same name as the address as to where you're going to, you can be assured that there's a connecting route that will get you to where you're going.

Also at ttc stations there are city maps WITH LANDMARKS ON THEM and the ttc drivers, as over paid as they are, are always there to direct you since they`re suppose to know the city

Selling station naming rights will NOT in ANY WAY, help the TTC. The TTC has shown year after year that they will bend over backwards to take the WORST deal corporations have to offer and pass the suffering on to us, the commuters.

Contact everyone in the TTC and kill this stupid idea now before it's too late.

"Also at ttc stations there are city maps WITH LANDMARKS ON THEM and the ttc drivers, as over paid as they are, are always there to direct you since they`re suppose to know the city"

Have you looked at one of these maps recently? I don't think they've been updated in 10 years.

Take at look at the map at Kipling for example. In addition to roads being out of date, the BUS ROUTES on it are wrong. You'd think such obvious information like where to wait for your bus and where it takes you would be something they'd keep up to date.

It's great to know that when I leave Bayview I'm on Bayview Avenue - but where am I on Bayview? Bayview is a very long street. What about King St? Where on King am I? Spadina - I'm actually on Spadina Road, not Spadina Ave for good Chinese food a long way down the street. Sorry - but I don't see your point as clearly as you would hope.

Well, Bayview Stn is on the Sheppard line, so even the most confused tourist should be able to work out that it is in fact the intersection of Bayview and Sheppard.

The tourist thing is a bit misleading I think. Tourists arriving by car do not drive up "Eaton Centre St." to go to the Eaton's Centre; they have to find out where it actually IS in the city (Queen/Yonge to Dundas/Yonge).

As it is right now I can tell guests to go to Lansdowne Station and take the "47 LANSDOWNE" to my place near Queen and Lansdowne. Imagine going to "House of Lancaster" station and taking the "47 NO FRILLS". That's infinitely less useful even though the names reflect notable locations.

Something the TTC could do that would be relatively non-intrusive is to charge for businesses to be plugged on the next stop/station announcments. For example, No frills could pay to have the stop at Dundas and Lansdowne announced as "Next stop, Dundas St. W. No Frills grocery store."