An Unhappy New Year's on the TTC

I just finished reading the whole story. Clearly the TTC did not put a sufficient quantity of thought into the security realities of the scenario they proposed.

Me? I took a cab.

OK, so why didn't the person who pressed the alarm explain what was happening to the TTC employee instead of allowing him to incorrectly assess the situaion? Why didn't anyone else speak up?

clearly every other person was intimidated by these guys so can you really blame the ttc employee?...

it scares me how some people are afraid to stand up and confront a situation. instead, when the opportunity arose to have it dealt with they just sat there and did nothing. in my opinion those people had their ensuing harassment by these wannabe thugs coming to them.

so what if they were intimidated? So was apparently the ttc officer. Obviously if someone stood up others would have or at least it would not allow the ttc officer to get away with falsely assessing the situation. If the thugs were that threatening he could then have called backup knowing the real situation.

maybe the person feels better about themselves having done "something" but that something only put a man back on the street. "Something" would have been to stop giving the young thugs the justification they already think they have as being tough, when in reality they only are tough because everyones too scared to be the first to step up. Backup would have then been called.

this isn't a grade 8 playground, grow up people.

Hey, IJITS! The issue isn't whether or not the people intimidated by a bunch of rowdy drunken thugs (possibly carrying either weapons or glass bottles that could just as easily be smashed on someone's head) should have stood up to said thugs and taken action into their own hands. The issue isn't even against the transit employee so much.

The issue is that the TTC did not take appropriate action with the situation. An alarm is pulled, SECURITY COMES DOWN. Someone pulled the alarm, THAT IS SPEAKING UP.

If these people had the balls to speak up when they were probably pretty certain to be left behind anyways, THEN THERE'D BE NO POINT IN HAVING CALLED SECURITY TO BEGIN WITH. They could've just THROWN DOWN and had a good old fashion BRAWL.

The TTC could've ended up with a bunch of people hurt pretty badly, particularly if anyone DID have the nads to stand up to a bunch of drunken fucktards. Shame on the TTC for not doing their fucking jobs, AND THEN complain they need more money so we can have hi-def screens in bus shelters tell us that a bus is coming in 20 minutes.

That was the least of the problems on New Years. I caught the subway at about 2AM and there was a power outage at Old Mill, meaning I could only get as far west as Jane. Seeing as how I live off Islington, the walk was not friendly. Yes, there was a shuttle, but after walking for nearly 45 minutes, only two passed by, both of which had passengers packed in like sardines.

Ryan C., you're my hero. (Again.)

That wasn't the only problem the TTC was having on New Year's Eve. I waited 40 minutes for the Queen W. streetcar at 10 pm, then on my ride home around 2:30, the streetcar driver literally drove past hordes of people at at least 3 stops, even though the car was barely occupied. She was also non-responsive to my questions about stops and generally seemed angry to be working. Typical.

People people people. Take it from me.

When you see a municipal government reference to "take appropriate action"?... "appropriate" is a municipal code-word and has zero semblance to reality let alone human experience.

Watch out when they use the term "deal appropriately with" or "decided by appropriate staff".

Means the precise-opposite of what you think it means. And municipalities do this because they CAN.

Free TTC on NYE was dropped 30 years ago because of alcohol induced violence and vandalism, plus ca change.

looks like a nasty ride: http://youtube.com/watch?v=nhlbTBuyOgw

I can't believe you people. I totally called it in the post a long while ago when they announced the free NYE service. This thing did nothing to decrease drunk driving (RIDE stats show no real change) and an increase in drunken incidents, which IMO is a dangerous situation on the subway when you think of electrified rails and trains running into stations at 60km/h. They said they increased security patrols throughout the system (I never had the opportunity to get onto the subway during the extended times), and I'm sure 99% of people had a fine subway ride home.
If I were the attending official in this situation, I probably would have diffused it in the same way, albeit "wrong". Risk confrontation with 8 drunken males or remove 1 homeless man who could theoretically take the next train? I'd rather do the latter, unless I was sure the special constables, who probably were running from station to station at this time of the night, were around the corner. Getting into a vocal or worse yet, physical fight, with the drunktards probably would not be best for customer safety.

Yes, Laurence because after the homeless man was kicked off, the "drunktards" sat down quietly and chatted amongst themselves about Wittgenstein.

While this incident is unfortunate, I believe the TTC was diligent in planning for NYE security. During the night, there were Toronto Police officers at most of the stations I went through (Bloor, College, Union).

I've seen the yellow alarm strip hit twice myself, and both times it played out like this incident: someone was brave enough to hit the alarm because of a brawl-in-the-making, but when the train guard arrived (with rubber gloves already on, extra points for that guy) everyone clammed up because of uncertainty about how the guard would deal with the 'perp'. If he doesn't get ejected, maybe he starts harassing *you* next? Maybe the guard tries to eject him/her, and he/she gets violent anyway, and who knows what's going to happen?

Consider also that at times like this, bystanders themselves are often drunk/exhausted/whatever, and not very sure of what's going on when events develop quickly.

Ryan C: I agree with you generally, but practically speaking where were is security supposed to "come down" from? Best case, they happen to be in the station where the alarm is pulled, but otherwise they will have to travel to the station in question. On NYE, sure, it would have been ideal to go for broke and put two transit special constables in every subway station... but this was not (and normally is not) the case.

I happened to be at College Park station on NYE after midnight, when the police respond a TTC call. I was just about the enter the station, when the streets around College and Yonge filled with police cars and officers. The police sirens came from just about everywhere, the intersection was completely blocked. From the amount of police cars around the scene I started to think about bigger events than drunken fellows.
By the time I arrived the tunnel, the police have already arrested one young guy (drunk of course). The station was full of people. I have no idea what was really happening there and how long it took the police to arrive. I can just tell that blocking Yonge and College on NYE means that they took very seriously that call. If anyway knows more about that incident please share with us.
Happy New Year.

Guy, they must have all been at HQ after a polishing off another batch of donuts.

Of course there is going to be dumb people on the subway on new years...no shock here. Did the TTC hire enough security? Probably not...but it is RIDICULOUS to suggest that the program should be scrapped...especially on new years. I rather have some tough guys scrap it out in the subway than try to drive home.

As per the story, the person coming down did the smart thing. Rather than risking his/her own safety or the safety of the homeless person, they got the person out of harms way rather than confront a group of drunks. They did the right thing.

Going with Ryan on this one.

Given that the event wouldn't have happened at all without 85 grand from Capital One, obviously TTC decided not to include security as a cost this time, unlike previous years when the estimated cost to do it was much higher and they didn't do it. Need to find deeper pocketed donors next time to fund some more security folks - not likely to be cheap since those security guys would probably prefer to be on the train on their way home from a fun time.

Much to think about here.

First, an anecdote on mobs: Over a decade ago I was at a Yankees game with a huge college group and sitting in the bleachers. This was back when the bleachers allowed alcohol and the place was ruled by rowdies in the back who pounded the benches with wood 2x4s. One guy in our group decided it would be funny to wear a full Texas Rangers outfit to the game. The rowdies began verbally harassing him whenever he stood up to cheer. Stadium security officials showed up, and rather than yell at the drunks they told the Texas Rangers guy to sit down and take off his Rangers shirt or leave. This shows that the quickest way to defuse a mob problem is to cut out the stimulant, even if that seems less than fair. TTC staff did the right thing.

Now a conservative view: Homeless people should not be riding the subway regardless unless they are quietly and are purposefully travelling from A to B, in which case they should not be so easily distinguishable as "homeless". If the individual was initially panhandling before drawing the attention of the thugs he certainly deserved to be thrown off the train regardless.

Liberal view: Government and public authorities should protect the travelling public and safeguard the right to travel in peace. The TTC was wrong in this case to not react in a way that did so. More security should have been on trains and in stations.

Realistic view: The subway-riding public always include jerks and unfortunates. Today on my morning ride on the A train in New York an entire car was unusable and unoccupied because of an asleep and very foul-smelling homeless person. Many MTA staff knew about this but did nothing about it until the train became so overcrowded (because of the 12.5% loss in capacity) that it started holding up the entire line at long station stops. At this point announcements were made apologizing for the delay ("there is a person on the train who must be removed because of hygiene problems and we are waiting for police".) A police officer was finally found after 6 or 7 stops and the person was removed. Should there be officers at every station? Should regular riders harass the homeless to get them off the train? Should subways not run at all? The answer is of course not - dealing with the public is simply inherently difficult and a constant balance must be found between providing service to all while not caving in to ingrates. The TTC has a tough job to do and while there were clearly some problems on NYE, a few people probably did not die or be injured because of drunk driving, while a great many others saved considerable money in getting home. Was the greater good still served? I would say yes.

Yeah, if we could just find a way to kill all homeless people, then they wouldn't ride public transportation, then gangs of idiots wouldn't harass them. Better yet, PAY the idiot drunk gangs to beat up any homeless people who get on the train and kick them off while it's moving...That will save money on security, because you can just pay the idot gangs with beer money. But yes, by al lmeans, let's blame this on the poor homeless guy who was being harassed and not the idots picking on him...it's much, much easier to get rid of the homeless instead of marauding gangs of jerks...I mean, we'll always have jerks, but I really think that if we start now, and work really hard, we can kill and get rid of all of the homeless people so we don't have to look at them anymore. Then the gangs can pick on decent, respectable, god-fearin' people who have jobs next.
"Homelessness: if you just ignore it, hide it, pretend it doesn't exist, sooner or later, it's bound to go away."
Now, seriously,
The TTC should provide adequate security for it's passengers...ALL passengers. No one deserves to be out-numbered and harassed, not even homeless people...who are STILL people (last time I checked.
I cannot stand it when people consider someone less of a person because of their financial or living circumstances.
Wait until the drunks harass YOU next time and no one helps you or they do hit the yellow button and one guy shows up and kicks YOU off. Hell, let the drunks decide who can ride and who can't, let them drive.

and a note to the "drunken gangs" who are looking for people to harass...Pick on some rich people or something, will ya? Don't the homeless have it bad enough without a bunch of jerks picking on them, they get enough crap from society and the cops as it is.
Oh, I'm homeless, it's frezing out, I'm hungry, cold, alone and...oh, great, now a bunch of drunk jerks are going to harass me just because I'm on a train. GREAT! All I need! Thanksalot, this holiday wasn't bad enough being on the street.

Druken people on the subway on NYE. Wow. Big surprise. Me - I took a cab. Same thing I do whenever I venture out late on any weekend night.

While I agree it is not always best to interfere and certainly not safe .. I find people in TO play it safe far too often and save their own arses .. seems like we are a bit luke warm. As for taking the cab, just be thankful you didn't have the driver i did, who forgot to stop at signs and red lights and then screeched to a halt 20 meters later asking .. " was there a stop sign back there ?"

Opensource - It's unfortunate and perhaps hard to believe, but not everybody has the means to afford a cab ride to avoid 'discomfort' on the TTC.

"and a note to the "drunken gangs" who are looking for people to harass...Pick on some rich people or something, will ya? Don't the homeless have it bad enough without a bunch of jerks picking on them, they get enough crap from society and the cops as it is."

I don't follow your logic. You're saying it's better to harass rich people? How about middle and working class people who are significantly better off than the homeless?

People should think more before posting.